There is no historical evidence to suggest Rama existed. That doesn’t mean he did not exist. He may have. He may not have. For example, it is much easier to believe that Narasimha avatar of lord Vishnu may not have existed in real life, mainly coz it’s hard to believe that a man actually took the shape of a lion. Also it is much easier to dismiss that Vamana Avatar existed coz it’s hard to believe a story where a man could step on a planet to cover it entirely with a foot. In the same vein, no body actually asserts that Asuras and Devas really churned the sea using a mountain and a snake with a tortoise as the base. However, many people do believe that Lord Rama and Lord Krishna existed and actually lived. Most people in the world believe that Mohamed Prophet, Alexander, Asoka existed and lived on this planet, in flesh and blood and not as mere fantasy of a book writer.
While some of the
above characters have actually lived, some may not have. How do we know who
existed and who did not?
For example coming to Alexander, there is a lot of evidence
to suggest he existed. The books describing him written during his life time
have discussed events and places that have been recorded by others elsewhere.
His conquests that describe his exploits in Persia and India have been recorded
by different cultures and societies other than Greeks. So, a corroboration of
the same person coming from various sources helps build the case that this
person actually existed and that is not mere work of fiction. Time of his
existence is calculated from various sources. Some includes timings such as
lunar or solar eclipse, a recorded event such as flooding or earthquake, or
hard evidences like coins, bones and articrafts.
There is no such evidence to suggest Rama existed. There is
no historical evidence of Ayodhya-there are no city walls dating to that period
of time. The books that we find are not the original texts of those times, and
hence we can’t even date them. And there is no other visitor or another author
from another society who has described Rama’s rule in any other book. The
conclusion is, there is no evidence of Rama’s existence.
Is Ram Sethu/Adam’s
bridge a natural formation?
Archaeological survey of India estimates its formation to be
approximately 1,25,000 years ago.
But if it were indeed man made, what are the signs one
should look for?
Usually most of the construction sites of such large scales,
such as pyramids or Great Wall of China, leave behind traces of human
presence-traces of coins, traces of bones etc. Such construction of a grand
scale if man made could be made only by large societies and hence large societies
tend to leave traces of cities, dwellings, jewelry etc. None of such evidences
are found in Adam’s bridge. It is like asking whether Mount Everest is a
natural formation. As there is no evidence to suggest it’s man-made so it’s
highly probable that it’s natural.
Did Human live 1.75
million years ago in India as suggested by the petition?
The petitioners
protesting the dredging of Adam’s bridge/Ram Sethu have suggested that Rama has
built this bridge 17, 50,000 years ago. That is a long time ago. The Homo Sapiens (Humans) did not appear on
this planet then.
At that time there were proto Humans whose brain size was
much smaller than ours and if you had a chance to look at them you would pass
them as apes. Back then we did not speak, we did not write, we did not have societies,
we did not build cities- we were not even humans then. But around 2,50,000
years ago proto humans became humans, originated in Africa and spread to most
parts of the world. Humans became dominant species around 12,000 years ago,
started agriculture, formed cities, built kingdoms etc. Indus Valley
civilization which predates Sanskrit and other Vedic religion started around 5,000
years ago. Rama, if existed in this civilization, should have been less than
5,500 years ago. There’s is a big difference between 5,500 and 17, 50,000
years.
And why do these
idiots come up with the number 1.75 Million Years? What is so magical about it?
Let me explain. Some Hindus believe our time is divided into
4 Yugas. The first one is Satya Yuga which lasted 1.728 Million years. Second
is Treta Yuga which lasted 1.296 Million years. Third one is Dvapara Yuga which
lasted 8,64,000 years. And at last Kali Yuga which spans 4,32,000 years. Lord
Rama was born in Treta Yuga. And we are in Kali Yuga which started at 3102 BC.
So, if you add backwards, 2013+ 3102+ 864,000+(2/3) of
1,296,000, you get 1.7333 Million Years. There it is-your magical figure! One
has to understand that this number is not scientific and has no practical basis
whatsoever. No other historical event was calculated using these numbers and
hence could be discarded as another mythological byproduct.
Isn’t literary
evidence good enough?
Is Ramayana written by Valmiki good enough evidence to prove
that Adam’s bridge/Ram sethu is a man-made construction? One should quickly ask
one’s self, is Tolkien’s Lord Of the Rings a good enough evidence to prove that
Middle Earth exists? Not Really.
Just because Ramayana is a religious book, it doesn’t make
historical evidence.
Conclusion:
To suggest that Rama existed is a matter of belief, whether
he existed or not is not irreverent to dredging of Ram Sethu. What is important
in perspective of Govt’s Sethusamudram
Project is to know if Ram Sethu is a man-made construction or not. All
evidences suggest that it is not, except quotations from mythology and some
blind beliefs.
India is now running extremely low on Vitamin S-where S
stands for Science. The lack of vitamin has led to a disease called “our
sentiments are hurt”. The first sign of this disease is that human sentiments
become more important in the matters of running the state whereas logic and
reason are booted out of the door.
So, certain people defending the story of Ram Sethu was
built by monkeys had moved Supreme Court of India citing quotations from
Valmiki’s Ramayana to back up their stand. It is like quoting Harry Porter to prove
existence of Hogwart Castle.
These petitioners
have claimed that it was built 1.75 Million years ago.
What happens to a billion people when they do not get their
dose of Vitamin S on adequate level?
You get a cocktail country where mythology is mixed with history, blind belief
mixed logic, irrationality mixed with rationality. In short you get a billion
idiots.
Humans have been humans for much less than 1 Million years.
So, how come Rama existed before humans became humans? And how did he achieve
this grand feet of building a bridge using monkeys?
Was Rama an ape then or was he human then? Is it blasphemy
to ask this question?
- Jay and Sujai
ery confident propositions, especially when you say "Man existed so many thousands of years ago, apes existed so many millions of years ago". My dear friend what makes you so confident of your figures? You have said you have "evidences" to prove this like archeological evidences, carbon dating etc. Have you heard about the "Piltdown man"? If not, I request you to please do some research on how scientists have cheated humanity regarding the theory of evolution. Frankly speaking there is no scientist including Charles Darwin who can prove with certainty the theory of evolution. Darwin writes in his book "evolution of species" that he finds it surprising how a complex part of the body as eye has evolved by a process of evolution. He feels it is a fantasy. People have superstitious beliefs on the theory that their ancestors were apes when no scientist was able to provide a single successful evidence to prove it. And when it comes to proof, what can be considered as a proof, please educate us on that. Do you consider carbon dating as a proof? Now I ask you a question. Carbon dating is a process wherein at any point of time the scientists measure the ratio of C12 to C14 and with that ratio they arrive at an age of the fossil. C14 is radioactive and begins to decay the moment the individual is dead. So the ratio will give the period passed since the fossil is dead. Now the question that arises is: are you and your scientists 100% sure that there can exist no ingredients that can not accelerate or retard the decay of C14? Can it not at all happen that some such component may have come in contact with this fossil and altered the speed of decay of C14? Are you confident that this process will give accurate results? You may say we have not discovered such a process. But modern scientists ignorance to not discover such a process can't be considered as an evidence that such a process can not exist.
ReplyDeleteDo you want to know what is the major flaw in the "proofs" that you are asking? Let me give you an example. If I ask a 1st standard boy what is 5-2, he will reply as 3. Next if I ask him what is 2-5, he will laugh at me. He will tell me that small number can't come before big number in subtraction. He may even laugh at me that I am such a big man but I don't know basic subtraction. You can never prove to him that 2-5 subtraction is possible. Our modern education plants the seed of ego into us that we can understand everything. With this we start questioning everything without understanding whether we are sufficiently qualified to understand what "proof" is and what is our level of understanding?
There are three ways of proving things. One way is by perception(using 5 senses), second is by analysis of perceived things, third is by knowing it from some authority that knows it perfectly. You have highlighted the first process of gaining knowledge. But this process has 4 major flaws. Firstly, we all tend to commit mistakes. So when we make some observations, they may be mistaken ones which will never make us arrive at truth. You may say at least we may tend towards the truth, but it never happens so. Adding one extra oxygen atom to water makes it hydrogen peroxide. So one extra atom makes us no way near the truth if we assume hydrogen peroxide as water. Secondly, we tend to be illusioned. When we are travelling on a highway, we see at long distances some water bodies on road. When we go near, the water body is not there. This is called mirage, an evidence that we can fall pray to illusion. So this tendency to get illusioned makes us not get accurate observations forcing us to arrive at wrong conclusions. Thirdly, we have imperfect senses. Our eyes are dependent on light to see, and that too to a particular limit. Our ears can hear only certain wavelength of sounds. If we eat sugar and then orange, it appears sour, but if we eat lemon and then orange, it appears sweet. Thus our senses don't give accurate readings because they are imperfect. Fourth, we have a propensity to cheat.
ReplyDeleteThis is very nicely demonstrated by the proposers of the "piltdown man" theory. Because of these defects, whatever devices we manufacture will also have these defects and so we can never arrive at proper observations. So "proofs" by these methods are always imperfect and are always on the brink of being thrashed by better proofs.
The second method of proofs is also followed by scientists wherein they analyze the facts before arriving at a conclusion. For ex, if you see a stick in a glass of water, you will see that it is bent. You will not directly believe it to be bent because while inserting the stick you knew that it is straight. Instead you analyze what is the reason for it to be appearing so. So scientists try this process. But this process also has problems. For ex: if I hear some sounds coming in a room I may analyze anything from that. I may analyze that someone is fighting, or that some movie is going on etc etc. When I open the door I may see that a group of people are doing a drama. So analysis may not give accurate results.
There is one third way to know things that people generally don't believe and are forced to think as superstitious. When we tell about this process, people brand it as superstitious without even enquiring whether it is really superstitious or no. That is the process of accepting authority and hearing from the authority. If you buy a TV, there are two ways of knowing its operation. One is you may experiment connecting the wires etc. But what happens if you connect the cable wire or speaker wire to the electrical power point. It may burn the device and even be fatal. So intelligent men read the manual and call the company person and ask for a demo. After that they use it. Similarly when this universe was created, it came with a manual given by the creator. Now your next question is what is the proof that there was a creator and he has given a manual? For that my question would be which "proofs" are you talking about? To get proof of something there must be some elementary level of faith upon which the proof is constructed. For ex: none of us have gone along with astronauts in outer space. Still you have some elementary faith that astronomers have gone in outer space. Why does this faith exist? With this elementary faith we proceed and then as we proceed we start asking questions. When our questions are answered, things get proved. Why don't people adopt the same policy when it comes to proving about God.
When proving other things they keep some elementary faith, but when it comes to God, they take the stand of not having any faith. Why such hypocrisy? This is because our education has groomed us to behave this way. Just like we have some elementary faith in the manual and the demo person when he shows his id, we must have elementary faith in the knowledge(which is translated in sanskrit as veda) and the commentaries on this knowledge by various demo persons who are called in other language as saints. With this elementary faith we must give them the opportunity to prove that the scriptures are correct and whenever we get a doubt we must ask questions. There is absolutely no harm in asking questions provided our mood is not that we ask questions just to defeat this person. Then we will not get any knowledge. Modern process of gaining knowledge is called ascending process wherein you do certain observations and then on your own effort try to arrive at the truth. But the problem with this is we are not sure whether at any given point of time we have arrived at the truth or no. The very fact that we are not sure is itself a proof that we are far from truth.
ReplyDeleteThe second process is called descending process, wherein a person knows the truth and he tells us. This is an accurate process. Just like, I may not know how to operate a mobile. If I experiment, it may prove damaging. If I ask someone who knows how to operate a mobile and act without any manipulation, the mobile will work correctly. Then I may also educate someone else about it, and he may further educate someone else. This way the knowledge is propagated. Similarly, whatever knowledge(veda) is given by the Supreme Lord at the beginning of creation is told by Him to someone, and he tells it to someone else and in this way in a chain of disciplic succession the knowledge is received. That is considered as a solid evidence. So with that evidence, we can say for sure that Lord Rama came to earth, his wife mother Sita was kidnapped, and he took an army of monkeys and built a bridge all the way to Sri Lanka on the Indian ocean. One more thing, a person who can make heavy planets and stars float in air, what is the great difficulty for him to make some small rocks to float on water? If we must not have blind faith on religionists, we must not have blind faith on the so called "scientists". Let them prove that their "evidences" are unbeatable or infallible, then we can trust them. We can't trust them right away blindly. Instead of trusting ill charactered scientists who wanted prizes and recognition, it is better to trust the saintly persons who have lead a life of exemplary character and selflessness.
Please publish my comments and reply to them
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I am not trying to prove any one wrong. Please have a glance at the top. I mentioned these are my opinions. Second get your facts right. When you are talking about Vedas please go through the history. Well let me explain. The first Veda i.e. Rig Veda contains Hymnes to be recited by the hotar i.e the presiding priest. People performed rituals to please their Gods and Vedic priests composed hymns. People began worshipping sky God through Lingam- phallus shaped stones. The name of God was coined as Indra. Oldest surviving Lingam is Gudimallam Linga in AP. The expression of Sky God were wind, cloud, thunder, lightning or rain. Indra was believed to cause this. Shiva is still worshipped as Shiva. So, now its debatable that Hindus associated the Lingam with Indra earlier and then how it was changed to be associated with Shiva. This is because many years later in Yajur Veda, different names of Indra was found like Shambhu, Shankara etc. Another new God Vishnu was created because of Shvetasetwara Upanishad 200 years after Yajur Veda. Priests propagated that God Vishnu has been born in many incarnations on the earth many a times. Various incarnations of Vishnu was written for the first time in Vishnu Purana Personification of Vishnu was done only after 1000 years. It’s no rocket science but common sense to arrive at a conclusion that its mankind who have created God and not vice versa. Morever none of your examples are subjective. You are more into assumptions and trying to see things as “you are” and not as “they are”.
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ReplyDeleteJainism and Buddhism atleast have some historical fact. But Hinduism doesn't even have a single historical evidence......
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